[Berlin-wireless] Alternate radio internet network

[Christian Hammel]

Am 30.03.2022 um 12:51 schrieb Julius Hamilton:
>
> Thanks.
>
> So the most standard way to connect to the network is just using any
> router whatsoever, is that correct?

A user, wantig to websurf, email,... only and who can "see" a
Freifunk-router's signal of other people's router, can connect as a
client as with any other WiFi networks.
By connecting a router to Freifunk you share your ressources with other
people.

>
> And just curious, what would it take for a cell phone to interact with
> it? Could it interact directly from the phone? Perhaps via Bluetooth,
> even? Or from the cell phone tower, in some way?
Phone as a client: WiFi as in other networks (including using the phone
as a mobile hotspot)
Phone as a mesh-router: no idea if is possible to make your phone a mesh
node

>
> Thanks very much,
> Julius
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon 28. Mar 2022 at 21:49, <freifunki098 at riseup.net
> <mailto:freifunki098 at riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>     idk about running it on a cell phone.
>     But there are small portable routers that you could use.
>     Gl.inet produced several that can run with the freifunk software.
>     To be sure it's available for freifunk berlin, check this:
>     https://selector.berlin.freifunk.net/
>     <https://selector.berlin.freifunk.net/>
>
>
>
>
>
>     On 2022-03-28 08:08, Julius Hamilton wrote:
>      > Thanks.
>      >
>      > I read online Freifunk runs a “mesh network” which I guess is
>      > exactly what I was looking for, so I’ll try to join that network.
>      >
>      > Does anyone think a cell phone could correspond with the network in
>      > some way?
>      >
>      > Or do I need to buy a router?
>      >
>      > Are there any very small or mobile ones?
>      >
>      > Thanks very much,
>      > Julius
>      >
>      > On Mon 28. Mar 2022 at 01:26, Christian Hammel <hammel at gmx.de
>     <mailto:hammel at gmx.de>> wrote:
>      >
>      >>> You might use the LORA Wan stuff …
>      >>
>      >> mmh. Probably not.
>      >>
>      >> 1.
>      >> The LoRaWAN protocol does not cover meshing or peer to peer
>      >> Networking.
>      >> It is designed to use a central infrastructure (end-device -->
>      >> gateway
>      >> --> Internet --> packet broker (central server) and some more
>      >> central
>      >> elements --> user's application and vice versa) End-device -->
>      >> end-device or end-device --> gateway --> end device ist not part of
>      >> the
>      >> protocol. Workarounds would probably fail because of the end to end
>      >> encryption of the packets.
>      >> For LoRa as a physical layer (without LoRaWAN) some p2p examples are
>      >> known.
>      >>
>      >> 2.
>      >> I have no idea, how to force answers within 0,1 s at the LoRaWAN
>      >> level.
>      >> If intended this would probably have to be implemented in the
>      >> server-sided (user's-)application. In addition to that a particular
>      >> amount of packet losses is always probable in the ISM band even when
>      >> they were sent in the timing windwow. And (even worse): If you don't
>      >> implement it in your device or in your application LoRaWAN does not
>      >> ACK
>      >> packets (workaround known) and the packet's payload is only some
>      >> 40bytes
>      >> (TTN) or less (Helium). Aditionally downstream messages are more
>      >> restricted than upstream.
>      >>
>      >> 3.
>      >> LoRa is not exactly "free": The chirp radio behind LoRa is
>      >> IP-protected
>      >> by semtech's patents.  The LoRaWAN standard is published but also
>      >> owned
>      >> by semtech or the LoRaWAN alliance, respectively. For using a
>      >> specific
>      >> network your packets must have a network ID in their headers in
>      >> order to
>      >> be accepted, forwarded or dismissed by the network operator's packet
>      >> broker. A network ID for your own LoRaWAN-Network must be bought or
>      >> leased for (much) money. Using other people's LoRaWAN networks (and
>      >> their IDs) is for free but restricted by a a fair use policy (TTN)
>      >> or
>      >> costs transmission fees (Helium and other
>      >> Cryptomining-IoT-Networks).
>      >> In all cases LoRaWAN networks are far away from Freifunk's pico
>      >> peering.
>      >>
>      >> 4.
>      >> Are you aware of IoT networks like LoRaWAN, Sigfox and others beeing
>      >> extremly narrow-banded? They are usually good for transferring some
>      >> bytes like the readout of a thermometer and begin to reach their
>      >> limits
>      >> already with transferring characters. Depending on what is intended
>      >> to
>      >> do, 0,1 s response time might not be the biggest problem with these
>      >> technologies.
>      >>
>      >>>> Because assuming I only need to design a protocol, I just need to
>      >>>> create a web server of a certain kind. People can share the
>      >> locations
>      >>>> of their servers, exactly like a URL for HTTP, or an email
>      >> address for
>      >>>> IMAP. As long as it conforms to the “standards” in a way
>      >> (I’m not sure
>      >>>> how to enforce that, like a protocol in Swift or an interface in
>      >>>> Java), it’s a valid server - just like a REST API I believe can
>      >> be
>      >>>> written in any language but it just respond to things like GET
>      >>>> requests and so on.
>      >> In a narrowband world you would make your device send it's
>      >> GPS-Coordinates every some minutes or so to a database and fetch the
>      >> coordinates from there via the internet and not adress the
>      >> GPS-sensor of
>      >> your device directly (whether with LoRaWAN or something alike or
>      >> not) by
>      >> GET requests. It's also safer because it avoids direct communication
>      >> between third parties and your device.
>      >>
>      >> Christian
>      >>
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